Rachel Strausman:

Thank you so much for joining us today, Mayor Garner. The city of Palm Springs, which is often referred to as Hollywood's desert playground, has been a popular resort city for many years. As such, tourism and hospitality are large economic drivers within the city. As such, this brings on an unfortunately common situation in which while the economy is thriving, there are many public problems that need to be addressed, such as affordable housing, income disparities and gentrification. Which is why we are so grateful to have Mayor Garner of the city of Palm Springs here with us today to talk about policy perspectives, as well as how collaboration within government, as well as across sectors can create effective change. So with that, we're so glad you're here. Thank you so much for joining us today. 

Grace Garner:

Thank you for having me. I'm looking forward to the discussion. 

Rachel Strausman:

Of course. So let's get right into it. So affordable housing is a global concern, but Palm Springs most definitely has its own unique perspective. Can you please provide some insights into how the local context has shaped the city's approach to affordable housing? 

Grace Garner:

Well, in Palm Springs, we have this robust tourist economy, like you mentioned. And because of that, we also have people who are working all of those jobs, right? And those tend to be a lot of low wage positions, you know, people who are washing dishes, who are doing maintenance to keep the city looking beautiful. And all of those jobs tend to be pretty low, low pay. And that creates a big problem because we have all of these people who want to live in Palm Springs. And it's driving up the cost of housing. So the average cost of a home right now is a million dollars, which is well out of the reach of really most people. So even a young professional like myself, I can't buy a million dollar house. The wages simply aren't there to support that. But you do have lots of people who are retired, people who have lived in L.A., San Francisco selling their homes and then moving into Palm Springs where a million dollars goes much further than it does, for instance. In Los Angeles. So one of the things that we have to deal with is how do we get more affordable housing into the city? And it's already fairly dense. So that's part of the problem. And then it's not just affordable housing, it's also workforce housing. And that's the biggest piece that we really lack. You have a lot of people who don't qualify for low income housing. But they also can't buy million dollar homes or deal with these very big rent increases that we've seen across the city. And so that I think is the challenge that we're facing. One of the things that we did recently was decided that our transit occupancy tax, which we get from people staying at short term rentals or hotel rooms, and we decided to allocate a portion of that tax to housing. So every year we'll see between maybe a million to three million dollars from that tax that will go directly to supporting housing projects in the city. 

Rachel Strausman:

That's amazing. And before we move on to the next question, I just want to say that it's very interesting that you bring that up because in a previous conversation we had with the mayor pro tem of the city of Coachella. He said that that's a rising issue in Coachella as well that they have funding for affordable housing and it's really helping their lower income residents. But people who can't afford housing already but they don't qualify for affordable housing, they're stuck. And so it's great to hear that there are multiple cities that are working on tackling this. And so it's very helpful. 

Grace Garner:

Absolutely. And that's a big thing that we have to do more of is taking a regional approach. Right now the city of Palm Springs is looking at an inclusionary zoning ordinance while inclusionary zoning is great because it provides either housing a certain percentage of housing. That's a lower income or money to the city to support lower income housing. But if you don't have inclusionary zoning throughout an entire region, you often will see developers go to a different city to develop homes, because they don't want to have to either pay or build the number of units that the city is requesting. 

Matthew De Haro:

Great. So local governments are often referred to as policy laboratories, in that their diverse perspectives and solutions can help inform action from other levels of government. Have there been any policies in other jurisdictions that have been able to help you, or have there been some within Palm Springs that you have other governments can learn from. 

Grace Garner:

That's a great segue to continue talking about inclusionary housing, right. So if you have these inclusionary housing policies throughout an entire region, then that allows for more housing to be built. And so that's one of the things that you do see in Northern California, for instance, you see the whole kind of San Francisco area has this requirement, and then you do see more workforce housing or low income housing from those areas. So that's something that I would like to see us do in Palm Springs and the Coachella Valley, but it can be really difficult to get people to be on board with that because everyone worries that that's going to stunt the number of developers that want to come to their region to build. But the reality is that we need more housing across the entire city of California. So if we were all typically putting in these policies kind of pushing developers to provide more, more housing at different income levels, it would really actually benefit everyone because what are they going to do if everybody requires the same thing, they're just going to have to comply with it. There's this idea that these developers are not actually going to be able to afford to build these homes if they don't charge less money or if they have to comply with inclusionary zoning policies, but it's just not true. So when you see it, even in Palm Springs versus the next city, Cathedral City, there will be houses being sold for a million dollars in Palm Springs, but in Cathedral City, it'll be $600,000 and it's basically the same product, but different zip codes. So it's this big myth, really, that they can't afford to build lower income housing or more moderate income housing in the city of Palm Springs. 

Matthew De Haro:

Right. I do have a follow up question. You did mention that you want new housing built, you're working on that in Palm Springs. Is there a concern that new housing is already going to be expensive where it will be worth a million dollars, or some high number like that? 

Grace Garner:

There is. So we have several more luxury developments that are happening right now and those were approved several years ago. But we do have three affordable housing developments as well. So those will stay affordable because that's worked into the, to the process and to the agreements, but we right now have not been able to attract anyone to build more moderate income housing. 

Rachel Strausman:

And is that exacerbated by just like the community not understanding the benefits of it, understanding the benefits of it? Or is that something where it's primarily an issue with communication with developers? 

Grace Garner:

It's really just the developers not wanting to build at the lower price, right? When you can build houses that can get you a lot more profit, you're going to, you're going to do that. So it's really about convincing developers that it's worth it to build more moderate income housing. And part of the problem too is that there's a lot of tax credits and funding for low income housing, but there's not as much opportunity to fund these more moderate income projects. So we go from low income to luxury, and it just doesn't make any sense. Even with our RINA numbers, right, which I'm forgetting what that RINA stands for, but it's the allocation of the number of housing that each city needs. And they tell you, okay, you need this many very low income units, this many low income units, this many moderate income units, and then above moderate. Well, in Palm Springs, the majority of what we need is above moderate, because we do have people who can afford above moderate. While above moderate, if it's the low end would start at housing that's about $300,000, right, and then up, but no one's building $300,000 but yet we have all of this housing that is technically above moderate income, right, but it's a million dollars. So there's no cap. And so it makes it very complicated. Because how are you supposed to get those people to build at that lower range, when everything counts from a $300,000 home to a million plus dollar home. 

Rachel Strausman:

Yeah, I think that that that really shows how it's a unique issue that you don't really think about I think when people think affordable housing, they think something more on the, you know, tens of thousands of dollars, but it really shows that there are unique housing issues that don't look as it would seem in the textbook. But moving forward from that the connection between income disparities, gentrification, and affordable housing is often pretty complex. So how do these issues manifest in Palm Springs, and what policies or initiatives specifically and I know we've been talking about this a little bit, but have been implemented to strike a balance between economic growth and community. 

Grace Garner:

The gentrification piece is really important right, one of the neighborhoods in our city that has the most available lots is our desert Highlands gateway states neighborhood. It was until recently, a predominantly black neighborhood and now it's become more of a black and Latino neighborhood. But it has lots of lots available. I think there's over 100 lots. Some of them are owned by community members, some of them are owned by just people who bought at, you know, really cheap prices years ago, and then we own three city lots there. And so one of the things that we just did about a year ago is put those lots out requesting developers to reach out to us about building low income or moderate income housing on those lots. And that's directly because we've spoke with the community and said, What is it that you want in your neighborhood, right. It's not just us on the dais who don't live in that neighborhood deciding it's going into the community and saying, What would it be best for you. And one of the things that they said is that a lot of people in that neighborhood are still renters, and they want to own a home, and they have the means to own a home at, you know, a 300 to $400,000 level, they don't have it beyond that. And so we're hoping to build three to six houses depending on the lot configurations that people in that neighborhood can then buy. That way we're keeping people in the neighborhood that they want to live in, we're developing it out a little bit more. And really making it what they want, and not just deciding for them. And along those lines, you know, we have people in the neighborhood who own lots, but they can't get a house built because it is just very expensive to build a house on your own. So that's the other step that we're kind of looking into is how can we assist people in building on their lots, right, because there's families who are kind of overcrowded into one place but they have this lot. So if they could build another house on it, their families could kind of divide out a little bit their grandchildren could own put on the house, etc. And so we're looking at kind of these creative options. 

Matthew De Haro:

Thank you. Are there any efforts to also lower the cost of building a house on a lot, or has that been talked about. Is that a concern on your radar?

Grace Garner:

One of the things that we do in the city is waive a lot of fees, and that's probably the easiest way to decrease the cost of things. We are looking at options for funding some of these projects right, you know, how do we provide a certain dollar amount so that the ultimate cost of the houses is more affordable so say developers coming to us and saying hey this house is going to cost $500,000 to build. You know what if the city says okay we'll front $200,000. That way, the person buying it can actually purchase it at a rate that makes sense for them. But at the end of the day, the cost of supplies is really what drives up the cost of building. 

Matthew De Haro:

How can local governments collaborate with the private sector nonprofits and community members to create a more sustainable and equitable approach to housing and urban development, trying from your experience in Palm Springs. 

Grace Garner:

One thing that I've been working on, and it's gaining a little bit of traction which I'm excited about is talking to many of our condo associations in the city and finding out how many of their units are vacant. So in Palm Springs we have a really robust kind of snowbird network and retired community. And what we see is that sometimes people buy second homes in Palm Springs or and they plan to retire there, but then they don't actually do it. Or they visited a lot when they were younger and as they age, the house sits empty. So really looking at, you know, are these homes being used and if they're not, you know, how do we get those rented out for workforce housing. So, there's one condo complex for instance that half of the units are vacant, and these are one bedroom units and so they're perfect for somebody who's kind of just entering college or someone who is just a single person or maybe a couple for them to move in. So how do we connect with this private condo association to then encourage their owners to rent out the home long term. So the benefit of course for them is that they're getting income that they didn't have. And they're not coming to Palm Springs very often and using the home so even when they do come to Palm Springs they've got some extra money they can stay at one of our hotels. And, that really is the big benefit. But it's also specifically doing it with workforce housing gives them that peace of mind right because you're saying hey this is a person who maybe works for the city or works for the school district, they have a stable job you know, they have a sense of how much money they're bringing in. And then also working with them to rent at under market rate, because market rate in Palm Springs right now these one bedroom condos are renting for between $1500 to $1700 and that's just not manageable for a lot of people, especially in the beginning of their career. So if we can get that down to a more reasonable rent based on person's income, then that would help a lot so they're still going to pay more than they would for a low income unit right because they have the means to, but instead of paying 50% of their monthly income they'll pay the 30% which is supposed to be the standard rate that we should all be paying but almost none of us are. 

Rachel Strausman:

And you had previously mentioned, thinking of affordable housing as a regional issue. Have there been efforts to partner with other local cities that you know workers might be staying at nearby to kind of, if possible get a developer to partner with those cities so that there can be more affordable housing units built. 

Grace Garner:

We have an organization called lift to rise in the Coachella Valley and lift to rise has been doing a lot in terms of that. So they're trying to just develop affordable housing across the entire Coachella Valley and working with different cities on that. So they're asking you, do you have land, do you have money, they have what's called a catalyst fund. And so, cities can put money into this fund, and then when there are opportunities to build or projects that need additional support, the money can come from that fund, and it'll eventually kind of make its way back to each of the different cities as projects. Move forward. So that's one of the ways that the region works together but I think there's a lot more that we can do together to actually make it more robust, and to really think through those types of things right like where the majority of the people working in Palm Springs, living right now. What would be the difference if they could live in Palm Springs, or do people want to stay living in the city that they're living in, how do we just make it more affordable for them regardless, because if people feel secure in their housing, they're going to be able to make it to work on time, they're going to be able to be more comfortable at their job. And I think that's one of the things we have to do to get employers to get on board with this too and kind of work with us is that reminding them that when you have all these external stressors you really can't be fully present at the job that you're working and so you're likely have more of a chance to make a mistake at work, or to maybe quit, because you're just so stressed. So how do we make sure that people feel good about their lives, so that they can work. And that's a whole other conversation too about how much we should work and all of that, but I think that's kind of one of the ways that we can get employers on board, it's just reminding them that extra stressors in our lives do not help us, and when we're trying to focus on a task. 

Matthew De Haro:

Are there any more efforts that you have in mind or have started to combat that argument of how do we make people more comfortable where they are living. 

Grace Garner:

It's an interesting thing right in the United States to talk about this kind of stuff and I think your generation is talking about it a lot more, which is, which is great, because I think a lot of people have this idea that we should just kind of deal with it. You know, you have to work and it's hard and oh well don't complain. But what we're seeing now is people saying hey wait, I deserve to be comfortable as well. I deserve to have time off. I'm actually more productive if I have that time to myself. And I think that it's really just a generational shift. So as we just see you know millennials and Gen Z kind of coming into power I think those discussions are going to become more robust and we'll be able to do a lot more with the way that we look at work, looking at universal basic income and really thinking about how we use technology as well to make things a little bit easier for everyone. 

Matthew De Haro:

What is your response to someone who tells you we can just deal with it you don't have to worry as mayor to argue or to find better ways for those people that want to be comfortable. What do you have to say to the people who just want to deal with it?

Grace Garner:

Well you know I think it's it's really for me asking people to think about things differently and saying you know what would your life be what what would your life have been if you could have lived this way because I think a lot of times when people push back on things it's because it's something that I think other people should have to work less. And that's really a frustrating point of view right? I had to go into a lot of debt to go to college but that doesn't mean that I don't want the next generation to have free college. The goal for our country is to provide free education for every single person who wants it. And it doesn't upset me to think that I had to pay a lot of money to go to college but that the next generation hopefully won't. To me that's just a benefit for all of us. And we all get to grow and learn because of it. But it is just really a shift in saying I am not going to think of this only in terms of myself and what I get and what I want. But I'm going to think of this in terms of what is the benefit to our community to our society to our world when we can offer free education or offer housing for everyone and not gouge people with these prices. 

Rachel Strausman:

Your insights on community buying a partnership that they're really inspiring that you're considering everything and making sure that beyond the policies working that there is community support for everything. But kind of shifting a little bit back to policy. I know we've talked a lot about local and a little bit about regional but have there been any statewide or even nationwide initiatives or programs that have been beneficial in Palm Springs or will promise for possibly in the future doing so. 

Grace Garner:

SB 9 has been huge in terms of the state of California. So SB 9 is what allows lots to be split so we can now build on smaller size lots. And we can take bigger lots and cut them in half and someone who lives on an acre property right and already has a house on it can also split that lot. And build more and even on much smaller lots so you could take a lot that is 10,000 square feet which is quite large and you can add another home or build a home on the back property and create access. Now, this is not something that we're seeing a lot of people take advantage of at the moment, but the fact that it's the law now that anybody can do this is really exciting. And I see it as an opportunity, again, kind of as we see this generational shift. When you'll have people who maybe are older and living in a home that they could do this but they don't want to. So, while eventually, they won't live in that home anymore the next person that purchase purchases the home might look at that as an option right instead of just having this massive plot of land, thinking of others and thinking, Oh, we can live on less or maybe building an accessory dwelling unit in their yard right we're doing things like that to encourage people to build housing and to create additional opportunities and to to relieve some of the burdens right is people could always come to the city before and asked to do that but it's a lot it was a lot more complicated. And now with this like statewide support it makes it easier. But we're not seeing the fruits of it yet, but I think that we will in the next 10 to 15 years. 

Matthew De Haro:

Just to clarify, and please give your opinion to the Palm Springs need to build more housing, because there's insufficient housing or is it because of the huge disadvantages with housing prices. 

Grace Garner:

We need more housing because we just don't have enough. We also need more housing at lower price points and that's, and that's a whole other issue, but we do actually physically need more units. So when we're looking at how many, the county is looking at how many units each of the cities need. They're looking at the total number of units that are already available, and then how many are needed beyond that. I do think though that we could relieve a lot of our problems if we looked at the number of vacant units that exist in our city and really tried to leverage that which is why I'm, I'm hoping that we'll get some of these condo associations to want to work with us. It's, and that would be one of those great public private partnerships, where you would have to have these condo associations. Really reach out to their, to their homeowners and ask them to participate. But it's a win-win for everybody. 

Matthew De Haro:

Do you expect any backlash for trying to get housing from these vacant properties? 

Grace Garner:

Oh, I'm sure there will be the first time that I ever raised it. I definitely got pushed back, I had residents who said well we don't want to rent at that low of a rate like those people will come in and it's like who's those people. And my response is always like, well do you want me to be your neighbor, and overwhelmingly people like yeah of course I want you to be my neighbor. And so then I tell them like well you know I can afford to rent a home for $1,000. And that's it. And I can't, I can't pay more than that. And people are always really surprised because they think oh you're an attorney. You're on the city council. Surely you own a home. No, I can't own a home. I can't buy a million dollar home and rent is so high in the city and wages for city council members are very low and even for the region. Attorneys make very low wages in comparison to places like Los Angeles, San Francisco, Washington DC, which makes it much harder to rent and buy. And that's kind of a pretty common misconception that people have that they think that if somebody is paying between $800 and $1,000 for a rental unit that they must. They must not be successful, right, and that's just not true. But it's also criticizing the work that people do that's actually really vital to our, our economy and to our livelihoods and Palm Springs. We need people to do maintenance work, we need people to do landscaping, we need people to wash dishes at restaurants and to cook in our kitchens. And to decide that they're not worthy of living somewhere because the rent would be lower is just really disrespectful to all of the people that literally make Palm Springs what it is. 

Rachel Strausman:

And that is so well put I think it's so inspiring that you are advocating for those people and making sure that their voices get heard because I mean, as you said exactly, they are making Palm Springs work, they may be behind the scenes, but every one of them is working something so important and so vital to the success of the entire city. So it's very amazing that you're advocating for that. Kind of, hopefully, looking into a little more positive tone, looking forward. What do you see as significant opportunities? And on the other hand, significant challenges for Palm Springs in the realm of development and affordable housing. 

Grace Garner:

Some of the biggest challenges we have in Palm Springs and housing are, is just space. Right. We're a fairly built out city. And so we're always kind of looking at where we can build, build housing at all, and we have properties that have been identified in our housing element, but it's certainly not enough to meet the demand and the need for housing. But one of the exciting things that we can do, and I'm hoping that will happen is we have a lot of parking, which is just everywhere right everywhere in California, especially in California. There's tons of parking lots. But if you go to these parking lots, especially in Palm Springs, the Walmart shopping center, it has a ridiculous amount of parking and it's never filled, never. We have an opportunity to build an apartment building on that parking lot. Right. And you don't have the same parking concerns that you would think because then people are not driving to Walmart to get their groceries, they're walking across the parking lot. They don't need to have extra space for their cars. But it's also kind of creating this more walkable city right. And that's something that's really exciting. And something that I'm looking at a lot more and kind of encouraging my colleagues to look at is how do we make Palm Springs a place that you can ride a bike or walk and do that easily. Right now if you're a tourist, you really don't need a car, you could easily kind of walk around in our city and maybe just take a cab to a few different locations that are a little bit further, but we want to do that beyond that. So if you have apartment buildings that are built on these commercial centers, you have less people driving to those commercial centers, and it will probably be people who are interested in being close to these amenities who are going to live there. So it really creates a very different kind of world. And I think, you know, my generation, we have an interest in being able to walk and easily access the things that we need. We're concerned about climate change, and how we can have more sustainability in our cities and in our lives. And so these are opportunities that we have to really think bigger and think about what we can do for the future. And sure it's different, but different isn't bad. And it's also again looking at that greater good. How do we make sure that we're still going to be around for generations to come. If we're going to do that we have to be more sustainable, we have to walk more, we have to bike more, we have to have more robust public transportation. So that's what I think is the most exciting thing about it is just being able to really implement new ideas that we haven't even considered before. 

Rachel Strausman:

And what you said exactly thinking bigger is something that we've heard a lot and it's something that I think doesn't get enough attention where thinking about policies that are win win as a previous guest called it, where you're trying to tackle affordable housing, but by doing so, you're also, as you said, helping reduce climate change, because you're making less people have to go in cars and drive around. And I'm also looking forward to the future if you think about where electric cars and automated cars are going. You know, who knows how many years in the future, but at some point, the roads might look a little bit different, where it's primarily being driven by automated cars. And so those cars might not have as many people owning them that might be something more looking towards an Uber, and that's not going to be as many parking spaces, as now it does. And so, it's so valuable that you bring up these solutions that think of the bigger picture, because there's so many things that need to be resolved at once, and it really helps tackle them all. 

Grace Garner:

Definitely. I'm really looking forward to next year because in Palm Springs we have a rotating mayor system. So, at the end of this year, I go back to being a council member, and I no longer have to do a lot of public appearances that I have done this year. The exciting thing about that is that I can really dig into these types of policy discussions, right? And what I want to look at is the future of Palm Springs. You know, how do we create this walkable city? How do we create the sustainable city? And looking at things like that, right? Talking about automated cars, what would the city look like in an ideal world, and giving people kind of a blueprint for what that looks like, and then getting their input on it. And then talking to engineers, talking to housing developers, talking to all of these different people about their expertise and what they see for the future. What are the concerns that they're worried about for 50 years from now, from 100 years from now? And how do we start to develop a plan so that we can be thinking about that ahead of time, right? And start implementing the things that we need for 50 years from now, so that it's not such a dire issue like it is now with housing, right? If we had thought through this 20, 30 years ago, we wouldn't be in the situation that we're in now, but instead it was taken for granted. And we have to constantly be thinking of the future and setting ourselves up for that success. 

Rachel Strausman:

I think that's a great place to end. Everything you've been talking about today, whether it is, you know, focusing on resolving current issues, but planning ahead for the future, thinking of the big picture and making sure that policies are working to tackle multiple problems, and then just taking into consideration the experiences of all of the residents of Palm Springs and the people that also make a difference in Palm Springs and work there, but might not necessarily live there. So with that, this has been such an insightful conversation. Thank you so much for joining us today, and we really appreciate it. 

Grace Garner:

Thank you so much for having me. 

Matthew De Haro:

Thank you.