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  Intro:  Welcome to policy chats. The official podcast of the School of Public Policy at the University of California, Riverside. I'm your host, Kevin Karami. Join me in my classmates as we learn about potential policy solutions for today's biggest societal challenges. Joining us today is Karen Borja, the director of legislation and Community Affairs for the Planned Parenthood Action Fund of the Pacific Southwest. My fellow classmate Dinara Godage and I chatted with her about the current status and future of reproductive rights in the United States. 

  Interview: Thank you so much Ms. Borja for joining us on the podcast, Roe v Wade and abortion and reproductive rights is such an important issue and we've actually never had the opportunity to speak about it on policy chats. We live in such a fascinating, and sometimes really scary time. A lot has happened this year. Sometimes it can be so overwhelming to look back in the span of just 3-4 months, the lives of millions of people changed over one major decision. So before we get into the impact of the overturning of Roe, I thought it'd be really good to get started on how we actually got here. Can you outline the road to the Dobbs decision and the overturning of Roe. And what were the key moments that actually led us to this? Well, what led us to 2022 where Roe v. Wade was overturned? Yeah. So I'll share some of that history before I even go there though, I want to make sure that the audience understands, that people understand that in California, Abortion is still safe, legal, and protected. That all patients, regardless of where they're traveling from, will be able to access care at Planned Parenthood of the Pacific Southwest. And I know that sounds like a very large comment, and it is. In the point of history that we're currently in, right? And as you mentioned, the Supreme Court has indeed overturned the Roe decision. So what is a good place to start is how we got to Roe. In the seventies, in many states had already taken a stance ruling out abortion as means of health care. And they began to consider their laws on abortion more and more restrictive across the United States on a very individual matter. And so by 1973, the Supreme Court seemingly settled the question with two landmark rulings. Roe v Wade, which is the more known and the lesser known, but still important Doe versus Bolton, that made terminating a pregnancy a legal right nationwide and made it so that the privacy of a person in that decision was held between the patient and their health care provider. So Roe really changed the landscape in term of abortion, safety, efficacy and availability for people across this country. As we've seen more and more in the most recent years, there has been a huge increase in anti-abortion laws and attacks on reproductive rights at a very at a statewide level, and sometimes even at a local level, right? Lubbock, Texas is a sanctuary city for the unborn. We know that many states leading up to the Dobbs decision in 2022 had already put very strict abortion bans, six-week bans, 15-week bans, and those had been challenged. By the time we got to June 24, 2022, we had already seen 600 anti-abortion laws be introduced at a statewide level. So on June 24, 2022 to the Supreme Court rules on the dogs versus Jackson's Women's Health Organization to uphold Mississippi 15-week band on pregnancy. And this is what we're now saying is the overturning Roe v Wade. And I'll talk about this moving forward as post Roe post Dobbs. That decision really ended the federal constitutional right to abortion in the United States, protected by federal law. That means now that in one fall swoop, the Supreme Court gave that power over to each state. They took away a person's power to make their own personal medical decisions. And they gave that power over to lawmakers at a statewide level. And so that's why today, we're sitting here late October, right? That's why today, the law in California looks very different than the law in Arizona then the law Texas that we can keep going. And so that, that is one of the main reasons why it was so important for me to start off by saying, in California, Abortion is still safe, legal, and protected. There is a lot of confusion, right? People are traveling interstate. We have some people that live along borders and they can step into the city of blight, think California, and have their abortion rights and their health care protected. And then they can crossover to Phoenix, arizona. And that no longer is the case. Remember, it's a vote at the midterm elections coming up on Tuesday, November 8. Then joined the UCR School of Public Policy for a watch party observing the election results. We will be in-person 5-8 pm and on Zoom from a PM to midnight. To learn more, go to SPP.UCR.edu. You can also find the RSVP link in our show notes. Thank you so much for all the information as you're explaining some of the other states, how far reaching do you think the impact of having row overturned has been? And what options are available for those in states that have already been, abortions have already been banned. So the banning of Roe, the post-op world that we're living in, has created restrictions for almost 36 million women, nearly half of the women of reproductive age, what we consider 18 to 49 year olds. In the United States, people who can become pregnant have lost abortion access, health care access. Since this really, we are almost at an 18 state band. And we know that in due time, it's likely that we'll get up to half of the United States completely banning access to abortion care.

  For us. We know that abortion access is health care and health care is a human right. And so because of that, at Planned Parenthood of the Pacific Southwest, our state affiliates with other partners we have been joining together. We created it was formed by 40 different organizations. The future of abortion council back in 2021. This council got together and they created 45 recommendation for California state legislatures to pass and say this is how we protect abortion in the state of California. The work that the future of abortion Council has done with the Women's Caucus of California and other caucuses, along with the governor and first partner, have been instrumental in some of the laws that were passed and signed into law this past September 30th by the governor. We had a total of 56 California's laws signed that protected patients who are coming from out-of-state to California. It protected abortion providers from getting lawsuits from states like Texas, even though they're practicing in California, right? It protected every patient in California from their medical records, never becoming part of a criminal record report, write these laws that our council Said need to pass. And the fact that California State Legislature said, yes, we are with you. We stand with reproductive rights. We stand for abortion access and we're going to work to ensure that patients in California and outside of California are protected was a very historic moment for this state. With that being said, patients who are traveling from out-of-state into California's seeking care are having a very difficult time. I'm not saying all of them, but some of the stories that we have heard from patients coming in and seeking care at Planned Parenthood Pacific Southwest. I've really shown us how detrimental the Dobbs case and this post Roe post Dobbs. Reality has been for many people. I'll share with you that those who cannot afford to travel to states like California are facing unbelievable challenges and choices of being forced to carry pregnancies against their will. We are seeing patients who are traveling from Arizona to California and their car breaks down and having to put whatever money they had towards a tire, right? Or towards getting their car fixed calling us up and telling us, Hey, my car broke down halfway to you. I don't know how I'm going to pay for my abortion anymore. Those are the really hard stories, right? Those are the real people who are impacted by a decision from Washington DC, by a decision at the state legislative level in other states. And those are the people that we're having to try and help in the many different ways that people need support. It's not just getting to a health center and receiving your abortion, right? It is a woman from Texas. Driving out here with her kids because she didn't want to leave her children with anyone in Texas in fear that her family members or friends might be prosecuted over the law, that puts a $10,000 bounty on anyone that helps anyone else with any kind of abortion access. We know that the ramifications of adopts case for out-of-state patients has been detrimental. Financially, mentally, emotionally. We're hearing from many different states, a lot of them with abortion bans, how their abortion bans are affecting their state residents. And we're serving them through abortion funds, through our care coordinated teams, through our health care medical professionals. And it's hard to hear those stories, right? It's really challenging to say in California we have the protections, we're going to keep working for protections. And then to see our neighbors states do quite the opposite of that and hurt their patients or their constituents and hurt their state residents. I think that's such a powerful note. And it really puts into perspective sometimes an unbelievable world we live in where in California, almost 40 million people in the state. We have that access exists, those protections exist and a bordering state, Arizona, which we border, It's like a complete 180 in texas isn't that far from us either. And so when you put it into perspective of the geographical, you can literally be at the border of two completely different worlds depending on your situation, circumstances. And I also think it's so important how you mentioned. It's not as easy as asking someone who lives in Mississippi or in Texas to drive or fly all the way out to California or to another state that might have those protections. But, you know, people don't take into consideration the costs. And even if they do, the other point you mentioned about how family members, depending on where they live, may actually get prosecuted for aiding their own family in that in that situation. It's so much more complicated and complex than just saying we'll just go to another state that has those protections. And it's amazing to hear, obviously, you know, that California has taken that stand. And hopefully other states do that as well, but it doesn't address the heart of the issue. And the fact that there are millions of women who don't have that access and they don't have the support, whether it's people or finances to actually travel and actually find that access. And it's those people like you mentioned, that are suffering and are facing challenges that it seems like there's no end. And another question I wanted to ask, you would kinda alluded to this earlier on how there was a lot of confusion. I love that you opened up with saying that you're a abortion is still safe and legal in California. But you'd alluded to the confusion that existed after the Dobbs a decision, I wanted to ask, you know, social media plays a massive role in our lives. Obviously. What role do you think has social media played in terms of misinformation on on the decision on what's happened these past couple of months. Do you think that confusion was more of a fear response where people were so shocked that this happened or was it more of there was deliberate misinformation. Maybe there's something I'm missing here. Like, what role do you think social media and traditional media as well have played in terms of the massive amount of misinformation and confusion that a lot of people have been experiencing. I think the media and social media helps sort of announce this decision from the Supreme Court. And as soon as that January 24th morning, we were all glued to our phones at work. And as soon as the decision was made, a bunch of pinging was going on because they were all getting this news. And then after all that, it was just a shock. It was genuine shock. And we had to snap out of it really quickly because we need to inform people of their access, their rights to health care, to abortion access in California. So for us, social media played a very social media and the media played a very important and continues to play a very important and strong role in delivering the truth. And delivering information about access, in delivering stories from people, right? Hearing it from the mouth of Planned Parenthood, Not the mouth of the media. That for us, has been very important when it comes to the disinformation. Social media and the media have also played a very large role in sort of a snowball continuing to go down the mountain. In the city of Temecula, council member Alexander came out and said that she wanted it alright. Band in the city of Temecula on abortion. She just said, the city of Temecula will be a sanctuary city for the unborn. And so there was a lot of commentary that happened right afterwards from pastors, church members, community members that was wrong and erroneous around abortion access. And that in particular hurt the conversation of abortion as health care. And it hurts the conversation of health care and people needing access to health care. So what that conversation with that council member did was that it ignited a fire that was already lit in Temecula residents and they showed up in force at the next council meeting and they said, No, your comments or wrong, your thoughts on abortion access are wrong. And we want to ensure that Temecula does not become a sanctuary city for the unborn, but it continues to be a city that serves all of its residents. And that continues to talk about health care for its residents and the needs of our residents have around health care. One of the things that social media and the media help do, in this case in Temecula is that it elevated the conversation all the way up to the Attorney General. The Attorney General Rob Bonta sent a letter to council member  Alexander, and the city council and the city attorney and the City Manager of Temecula and said, We're sorry, but in California, the law of the land is abortion is health care. Abortion access is available to everyone in abortion is safe and legal and protected in this state. The buds, all of that information that had come out, whether it was erroneous or otherwise, helped elevate this issue into Temecula all the way to Sacramento, to the State Attorney General, which really helped protect access to health care in the city of tequila, right? Two weeks after that, council member Alexander, once more, it says, we want to oppose proposition one. And so we're sitting here and we're like, Oh man, what is going to happen now? Well, guess what? The city manager and the city attorney said. We don't want to go down that rabbit hole again. We just heard from our residents who told us, No, we do not want these anti-abortion commentaries, rhetoric laws on our books. Let's continue, Let's continue our council meeting. Let's continue the business of the city. And so it was very interesting to see how the media played in social media played a very large role, both in informing people and passing out this information and how people were able to sort that out and come and show up in-person and advocate for health care in their communities. That is a very positive outcome. When residents really take a look at what's in front of them and see, actually, no, this is not right. This is not information. This is not great. And they're able to act on. That's amazing to hear. I think when you hear that kind of grassroots, when you actually hear people coming together to fight for what they believe. We focus on these kinds of topics. We usually focus on the negative and there was a lot of negative focus on, and it's important to address that. But I think it's also important to look at the positive, positives that are going on. It really makes you think that, hey, you know, we're in a really tough position, but there is a way out. And on that note, I think that's a good transition because our midterms are coming up in just a few weeks. This is probably an obvious question, but how significant are these midterm elections in regards specifically to reproductive rights? Very significant on the ballot in this election. This November 8 is Proposition one. Proposition one would add the right to abortion access and contraception, access to our state constitution. I just told you right, that we have all of these protections and laws on the books around abortion access. Why do we need it on our constitution? The reason why we need access to abortion care and contraception is because the tides change. Political structures change. Who's in office changes as the years go on, as our systems change, as people get more involved in democracy, right? We want to ensure that no matter who or what political power, what political party is in power. Abortion care and contraception are both protected in the state of California. That if another Dobbs decision comes down in California, it won't matter what the state legislation says. The voters of California have chosen to protect abortion access. So it is essential that our state continued to have the strongest laws in the country so that we can continue to become. Continuing to be a beacon of hope for those who need access to essential health care no matter where in the country they might be. We also have an opportunity this midterm election to vote for champions who uphold and expand reproductive health care and rights at every level of government. And I really genuinely do meet every level of government are school boards. They get to decide on comprehensive sexual health education. Our cities, like I just gave the example of tonight, they get to decide to be a beacon and a place where abortion access can happen through health care. At the statewide level, our state legislators ensure protections for in-state patients, out-of-state patients, they move money to ensure that there's actual funds for a website where people can go and get information on their nearest health center. And our state legislatures like the governor, moving things in their budgets around to ensure that there is money for reproductive care. Ensuring that they're signing laws that will protect patients in California and outside of California. Our health care physicians, our health centers, right? And so if you want to learn more about what candidates Planned Parenthood Action Fund up the Pacific Southwest has endorsed. You can check out our voter guide for choice.org, backslash Voter Guide. We do a very thorough endorsement process and you can find out who we've endorsed, our voter guide. 

  Social injustice, health disparities, climate change. Are you interested in solving pressing challenges like these currently facing our region and the world? Then consider joining the next cohort of future policy leaders Like Me by applying for the UCR Master of Public Policy program. Learn more at MPP dot UCR dot edu. You can also find the link in our show notes. Yeah, thank you so much. You had mentioned the including getting some abortion rights included in the Constitution. And from what I've learned in this last, May, I was in our AP Government class in high school and one of the essay questions was right about a precedent that you know, is like something you can believe in. And my classmates and I, we all wrote about Roe v. Wade.

  Wade. And then summer after senior year, we were all like What just happened and you were talking about shock earlier and we were all like, we just wrote about this and now it's no longer there. And I think especially for students and other people like our age and this age range. It's something so fundamental to what we believe in what we see is something that we want to have as a right protected and leading off of that, what can we do to protect reproductive rights in California and nationally? See where that goes? Yeah, I think you're right in the place that we are at. Being able to say abortion. Just that rate is very important. Allowing space and time for people to share their abortion stories is also very important, right? Creating events, prophesied those community meetings, right? Places where people can have conversations around abortion access, feel supported around abortion access, and come to that place of intersectionality where abortion access is health care and health care is a human right and everyone deserves access to, rightly helping us connect some of those dots, creating those spaces. That's very important. Voting.

  It goes without saying right where we are today, the power has shifted from a protected federal right to a protected or unprotected state, right? So it is very important that we all go out and vote in that we, that we lead with our values, that we vote with our values that we show up authentically to the ballot box and say, This is why I'm voting for these folks, right? This is who I feel it's going to protect us. And in that same realm, getting to know who were voting for before and after their elected into office. Making sure that folks values not just aligned with ours, that their values and our values can be accountable in the same way, right? I'm voting for you because you're going to protect my access to health care. And you're going to continue voting at the state level, at the local level to protect my right to health care. Then lastly, I mentioned earlier how abortion funds have really helped fill some of those small gaps and large gaps in patients receiving access. That's not just for patients for coming from out-of-state patients who might be in state and might need a little bit of support somewhere along the line of their abortion access journey. You can learn more about donating to the Planned Parenthood or the Pacific Southwest abortion fund, plan.org/Take action. And there's definitely different ways to get involved. There is always something going on at Planned Parenthood of the Pacific Southwest. So if you'd like to volunteer with us, let us know. We have a vetting process that we go through with our volunteers. You'll talk to one of our organizers and they'll put you in to do something, anything right? Whether it looks like marching at pride or joining us at a health fair for making calls for some of those elected endorsed officials. It's very, very important too. Get involvedif reproductive justice, reproductive access is what calls you. There are many different ways to heed the call, right? Including working for an abortion provider, right? Planned Parenthood or otherwise. There are many health care careers, many health care pathways. I'm a political scientist, polisci major. I'm working for a healthcare organization. There is room for all of us, right? We have our education staff who goes out to schools and teachers on comprehensive sexual education. There is room for everyone under the reproductive justice, reproductive health care access umbrella. So if you want to, it's there, right? There's lots to do, less to less to do, and lots to protect under the reproductive health care umbrella. 

  Well, thank you so much, Ms. Borja. You actually answered my final question. I was going to ask you, how, what can we do? What can an average student or anybody really do in terms of getting involved in, It's great to hear that there are so many ways to get involved in. I think we go ahead and share that at UCR, there is a Planned Parenthood generation action chapter. You can find us on Instagram at PPG@UCR. Ppg@UCR is our Instagram handle. And the club does all sorts of things from the wellness vending machine that you have at your gym. That was one of the very large efforts at the student's underwent. We had drive-throughs during the pandemic to help students get their menstrual products, Plan B products. There's a lot going on. The PPG, that generation action chapter at UCR. That's definitely one of the best and closest ways to get in touch with Planned Parenthood they are on your campus. You don't have to leave campus, right? And we do all sorts of good work on your campus. That's great to hear. I loved hearing it and I think I mentioned this earlier as well. But in terms of we always talk about the what's actually happened and the fact that millions of women are now facing massive challenges. But again, I think it's super important to also focus on the positives that are being done. And the fact that California has taken a stand. I think that's really important to highlight because I'm sure you've, you've also encountered this when you focus so much on the negative, you kinda get into the weeds and you miss the fact that they're actually, I'll still a lot of people that are fighting for this, right? And I think it's just so important that we maintain that. I did want to give dinar a chance to ask a final question before we end up in the episode though? Yeah. Thank you, Kevin. I was just gonna ask if you had any hopeful words for anyone who's in a state that's already banned abortions. And anything you want to say to them in any advice you would give. 

  Yeah at Planned Parenthood, we will keep fighting for all people so they can be free to make of when and if they want to have a family. We understand the intersectionality between the LGBTQ community, continuing to be ostracized, continuing to be told that you can't see the word gay, right? Continuing to lack access to health care. We understand the plight of people of color, under-resource communities, communities who have been Designed in particular ways where access to health care is not a priority for their local government. We understand the plight of students who continue to graduate year after year without actually having received comprehensive sexual health education that would empower them to make decisions for themselves so at Planned Parenthood. The last note that I can give is just like, hope, bright, we are with you. We we believe in care no matter what. Our slogan, right, care no matter what. And we believe that it doesn't matter who you are, whether you're documented or undocumented, young or old. Or in between, right. We will care for you no matter what.

  Please visit us. Please see Planned Parenthood as a beacon of hope both in our health centers and outside of, outside of our health centers. And just like us, there are many, many across the state of California, many organizations and many people, many elected officials who stand with patients who stand for reproductive justice, who will continue to fight for abortion access. For those who are interstate, those who are out of our state. It is an unfortunate but very crucial time for people in our communities. Just like people in Temecula did, right? They sit up and they said, in my backyard, we believe that abortion care is health care. And that's how we're going to keep it.

  For Planned Parenthood. It's a very important time as much as it's challenging, it's important for people in our communities to know that we will stand with them just the many, many different ways that people have stood with Planned Parenthood. We're here to provide care no matter what and to anyone who might need it across California.

  Thank you so much, Ms. Borja, I think that's the perfect note to end on. Like you mentioned, an unfortunate but crucial time. And everyone can get involved and help out, even in little ways. It goes a long way to actually come together and fight for something that we believe in. Thank you so much. It was an honor to have you on here today to talk about one of the most important issues. And I'm sure after midterms, you know, there'll be a lot of changes and it's, you know, no one can predict what's going to happen, but I think it's really great to talk about this. So thank you so much for taking the time to do this. Thank you both. I appreciate your time and your invitation.

  Conclusion: This Podcast is a production of the UC Riverside School of Public Policy. Our theme music was produced by C code. I'm Kevin Karami. Until next time.